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Monday, March 16, 2009

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Gryphon MacThoy

Hey Jon, another good question.

In short, Yes, compression type makes differences in capacity.

MPEG4 requires more network bandwidth, I/O capacity, and hard drive capacity. It is easier to decode to present to screen.

H.264 requires more CPU and GPU resources to deocde and present to the screen. It takes less network bandwidth, I/O capacity, and hard drive space.

That's a simple breakdown between the two, given equal video quality examples. The same idea applies to MJPEG - fatter stream, harder on network and storage, easier on decode.

The PC on your desk is only going to have so much CPU and GPU for rendering a bunch of H.264 streams simultaneously. It's also only going to have so much network bandwidth to those IP sources and only so much I/O capacity to store live streams or in some cases even get the video streams to the GPU for help in decoding. What's the tipping point? I dunno - it's a balancing act you HAVE to do for every application.

I hope we're helping with this dialog. BTW, I'm out traveling doing customer demos, so please have patience if I don't get back right away. - Thanks!

-G MacThoy

Gryphon MacThoy

Good question ckodish,

Direct answer to your last question:
16 would be the best guess. If you were to buy from us, we'd ask you what IP Camera you wanted to use and how and then design the most cost efficient NVR possible. We might even go out and buy your exact IP Camera to test with, or just borrow yours for a few weeks to optimize everything.

If you are looking at cameras like Cisco's HD stuff, then you are probably looking at megapixel cameras of much higher image resolutions than 4CIF or VGA (for easy comparison, I group these together as roughly the same, even though they are different).
Also, in your question, the major missing information is the video compression type. MPEG4, H.264?

So, where am I finding IP Cameras with a stream less than 2Mbps? Well, first of all, most any camera with resolution and frame rate settings can be set to low values that reduce the bitrate to near useless values (1 frame per minute, 1/4 VGA) but then again, we aren't saying what the video compression is.

HikVision makes a h.264 based 4CIF at 30 fps IP Camera that gets around 2Mbps. That's one example, and if they are the only ones I'd be surprised. The same video stream quality rendered in MPEG2, MPEG4 or MJPEG is going to be at least 4Mbps, on up.

Your 20fps video at 25Mbps is probably a GORGEOUS video to look at, by the way. 1080p HD? Higher?

Tips for more direct comparisons:
1 - Know the pixel counts h x w. VGA is 640x480. 4CIF is 704x480. Wikipedia has a great article about video format specifications here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_resolutions

2 - Know the video compression used. H.264 provides a smaller bitrate with equal video quality. MPEG4 is a bit older but still pretty good, about 2x the bitrate of h.264. MJPEG is older and bigger. MPEG2 is even older and even bigger.

3 - Make sure to note that frame rate reduction is not directly proportional to bitrate reduction. 15fps doesn't produce half the bitrate of 30fps. The difference depends on the compression details. MAKE YOUR MANUFACTURER TELL YOU THE DETAILS. :)

Thanks for asking - and feel free to share and argue about it. We're learning, too.


John Honovich

"Where in the market are you possibly finding IP cameras with a video stream bitrate under 2Mbps?!?"

It is very common for standard definition IP cameras that use MPEG-4 streams to be under 2 Mbps.

I think your question assumes 30 fps and megapixel - which is obviously different.

However, lots of real world IP camera deployments are using 4CIF or lower with 10 frames or lower. This is generally under 2Mbps and can be under 1Mbps if it is CIF.

ckodish

Dear Gryphon,

You state that the Airship NVR can record up to 32 channels of IP video. You went on to "Assume all video is 4CIF/30, both Analog and IP Cameras." And finally ask us to make the "BIG ASSUMPTION" that "the video stream bitrate is the SAME as the Analog example above (2Mbps)".

... My question is: Where in the market are you possibly finding IP cameras with a video stream bitrate under 2Mbps?!?

The lowest I have seen so far is Cisco's 4Mbps HD IP Camera... and I hear rumors for optimized viewing the bandwidth needs to jump to 6Mbps. Other major manufacturers are up around the 25Mbps rate with simply 20fps.

Follow up question: If I give you the benefit of the doubt with an industry leading 4Mbps video stream bitrate, what is the maximum number of supported IP cameras on a single Airship NVR?

John Honovich

Does compression choice for IP cameras impact capacity? For example, MJPEG vs H.264.

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